Namaste Didi, As I understand, during the dreaming state, the witness is witnessing a dream, and the mind is in a semi-conscious state. But towards the end, the mind becomes fully conscious, and then it gets identified with the dream character and all those projections (sweating, fear, falling, running) are experienced in the physical body. How does this happen? Please guide.
Answer:
A semi-conscious or conscious mind cannot be proven to exist continuously and consistently through the three states of Waking, Dreaming, and Deep Sleep. The ideas of the conscious Waking mind or semi-conscious Waking mind are limited to the Waking state.
- The Waking mind cannot claim to be the Dreamer mind.
- The Waking mind cannot claim to be the Sleeper mind.
The Waking mind only has a fragmented memory of the Dream as if it were borrowed; it cannot prove that it was the Dream mind.
The Waking mind appears after the dream has ended. It can recall, interpret, and narrate only fragments of the dream, but not the entire dream. Hence, it cannot be proven that it was present as the Dreamer’s mind during the Dream. Therefore, its claim, “I was dreaming,” is only a post-dream assumption, not an absolute certainty.
Then who carries the memory of the Dream?
Only that which is present commonly between Waking and Dreaming can truly carry the memory. That is the Witness Consciousness. Hence, it is the Witness that actually knows the Dream and lends it to the Waking mind. The Waking mind is in the form of thought only, and a thought is not conscious enough to know. Hence, the Waking mind is not the knower. It is the known.
Who knows the Waking Mind? Can the Waking Mind know the knower?
The Witness Consciousness is the knower. The Waking mind is the known. The Dream mind is the known. The Waking mind cannot know the Witnessing field.
The Witness is conscious, and its consciousness is superimposed on the body and mind. That gives the feeling that the mind knows. But look carefully at a thought. Say it out loud: 2+2=4. Does the thought know you? Or do you know the thought? Is a thought conscious enough to know?
You will see that just like the body is inert, so is thought and feeling.
How to recognize the knower?
Simply stand as the Witness of the eyes reading this post. Notice that the body, the computer, the room, etc are in the witnessing field.
- You-the-Witness know the thoughts arising and falling.
- You-the-Witness know the feelings arising and falling.
With this constant practice, you will arrive at a point where you recognize yourself-the-Fourth [Turiya] completely separate from the first [waker], the second [dreamer], and the third [deep sleeper].
Then dawns the realization that:
- You are the conscious Fourth [Turiya], which is ever-present even in the absence of the body and mind.
- The mind cannot be semi-conscious or fully conscious; the mind is only an inert thought or a feeling. A thought or feeling by itself is not conscious.
- The sense of being conscious is only borrowed from the Turiya, like a phone borrows power from the electrical outlet.
- During the dreaming state:
- ‘I-the-Witness’ only know the dream-thought [dream mind]. Sometimes, I-the-Witness, forget my true nature of witnessing, and indulge in the dream scene by falsely identifying with the dream character and its projections(sweating, fear, falling, running). This is all assumed to be experienced in the dream body-mind, while they are merely inert dream thoughts.
- When the Waking state appears in the form of a Waking sensation, ‘I-the-Turiya’, having forgotten myself, I assume to be the Waker that was asleep and was dreaming [indulging in imagination in a semi-conscious mind]. Now this is seen as an illusory assumption.
- Superimposition of a ‘Waker’s mind-inside-a-dream world imagination’ on the reality of ‘Awareness’ is revealed. ‘I-the-Turiya’ carry the imaginations of sweat and fear or superimpositions from the Dream to the Waking.
- The Waking mind only throws out the borrowed, fragmented thoughts of sweating, panting, etc.
Swapna Nidra Gnyana Sadhana, or Wake-Dream-Sleep exploration, reveals the above SEEING after intense effort. Begin the journey with humility, ‘I am not there yet, but let me begin with sadhana’. The following books might help your journey:
A This explanation is rooted very strongly in Advaita Vedanta, especially the teachings around Turiya from the Mandukya Upanishad and later Advaitic interpretations.
A few important observations about the structure and implications of the answer:
What the answer is saying
The central claim is:
The mind is not independently conscious.
Only the Witness Consciousness (Turiya) is truly conscious.
From this standpoint:
- waking mind,
- dream mind,
- deep sleep absence,
are all appearances known by Awareness.
The answer therefore rejects the ordinary assumption:
“I, the waking person, went into dream and experienced it.”
Instead it says:
- the “waking person” itself is another appearance,
- just like the dream character.
This is classic nondual inquiry.
The key philosophical move
The answer makes a subtle epistemological argument:
The waking mind claims:
“I was dreaming.”
But according to the teaching:
- the waking mind only appears after the dream,
- and only recalls fragments,
- therefore it cannot prove continuity with the dreamer.
So what connects dream and waking?
The teaching answers:
the Witness Consciousness alone.
This is actually a sophisticated line of reasoning found in Vedantic self-inquiry traditions.
About “mind is inert”
This is also a standard Advaita position:
- thoughts do not know themselves,
- the body does not know itself,
- sensations do not know themselves.
Awareness alone illumines them.
The analogy:
“the mind borrows consciousness like a phone borrows electricity”
is a common Vedantic metaphor.
Where the answer becomes experiential rather than philosophical
The most important practical instruction is here:
“Stand as the Witness.”
This shifts from metaphysics to direct inquiry.
The teaching is inviting the seeker to observe:
- thoughts are observed,
- emotions are observed,
- dream states are observed,
- waking is observed.
Therefore:
the observer itself cannot be one of the observed objects.
This is the essence of many self-inquiry traditions associated with figures like Ramana Maharshi.
The subtle point about dream emotions entering the waking body
The original question asked:
Why do dream experiences affect the physical body?
The answer reframes the question entirely.
Instead of:
“How does a dream affect the body?”
it says:
both dream and waking body are appearances in Awareness.
So sweating, fear, panting, etc. are interpreted as:
- not “dream influencing reality,”
- but a continuity of superimposed mental impressions appearing in Awareness.
This is not neuroscience.
It is phenomenological nondual philosophy.
From a modern scientific perspective
Modern neuroscience would explain dream-body reactions differently:
- REM sleep activates emotional and autonomic systems,
- the nervous system responds physiologically,
- increased heart rate, sweating, muscle activation, etc. can occur during vivid dreams.
So:
- Advaita explains this through identification and superimposition in consciousness,
- neuroscience explains it through brain-body physiology.
They operate in different explanatory frameworks.
The strongest insight in the passage
Probably this:
“The mind is known.”
That single observation is the pivot of the whole teaching.
Because if thoughts are known objects,
then the knower cannot itself be a thought.
Advaita then asks:
What is this knowing presence?
That inquiry leads toward recognition of Turiya.
A caution
Experientially, teachings like this are meant for contemplative inquiry, not merely intellectual belief.
Traditional Advaita teachers usually emphasize:
- ethical preparation,
- mental stability,
- discrimination (viveka),
- sustained inquiry,
- and guidance.
Otherwise, people can become conceptually fascinated while remaining psychologically identified.
The text itself hints at this by emphasizing:
humility and sadhana (practice).
a
A
Based on the text provided in the image from Light on Jñānaganja, here are the main points extracted from the passage:
The Core Question on Matter Transformation: The narrator asks Bābā how yoga scriptures can claim that nature (Prakṛti) or a specific object can transform one kind of matter into an entirely different kind of matter.
The Shared Composition of All Objects: Bābā confirms it is possible because all matter in the world contains the constituent elements of all other matter. Using a rose as an example, he explains that every existing element in the universe is present within it; it simply looks like a rose because rose constituents are currently prominent, while the other elements remain hidden from ordinary sight.
The Perception of Yogis and Scientists: While regular people cannot see these hidden, dormant constituents, a master Yogi or a scientist can perceive them.
The Process of Transformation: By merely desiring it, a Yogi can use their power to shift an object's outer form back into its latent, foundational constituents. What was previously unexpressed becomes expressed, and what was visible gradually fades into the inexpressible. Through this cosmic mechanism, literally anything in the world can be transformed into anything else.
The Spectrum of Realization: This transformative property applies to consciousness as well; changing from a divine realization (Dev bhāva) to a lower animal realization (Paśu bhāva), or vice versa, are both entirely possible.
The Demonstration (Jātyāntar Pariṇām): Bābā notes that if something becomes completely homogeneous at its relative base, it becomes invisible and inexpressible. To demonstrate this scriptural principle scientifically, he physically transforms the discussed rose into a Jabā flower (hibiscus), illustrating the concept of jātyāntar pariṇām (the transformation of one genus or species into another) described in yoga texts.
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